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Saturday
Mar082014

Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!

On Mars Hill Church’s very public website, the following was posted on Friday, March 7, 2014:

“A former staff elder, Dave Kraft, whose disagreements with Mars Hill policies have recently been made public, had previously communicated with the BOAA numerous times that he was satisfied with the steps we have taken to address his concerns.”

When I saw this, I felt it was time for me (not just through others who are quoting me) to begin sharing what has happened to bring me to this point in my relationship with MHC, in general, and with the Executive Elders of MHC, in particular.

I will have more to say in coming days, but right now I want to say this to set the record straight.

My purpose in everything I have said and done to this point has been to:

See the Holy Spirit enable and empower Pastor Mark to own his sin and to confess and repent. I am praying that he comes to his knees in humility and contriteness rather than see him leave.

At the end of my “Formal Charges” which I sent through the Board of Advisors and Accountability (which I shall hereafter refer to as the BOAA) I said this:

“My bottom line desire in all of this is that the Holy Spirit would convict Pastor Mark Driscoll of his sin and enable him to repent, demonstrated by changed biblical behaviors and attitudes so that Mars Hill Church will have a healthier leadership and a healthier culture.” May 10, 2013

Before May 10, and after May 10, I communicated with Pastor Mark multiple times concerning these very serious issues.

I (and my wife, Susan) love Pastor Mark and Mars Hill Church and want to see ongoing kingdom impact, but believe that this impact will be truncated and harmed if true confession and repentance doesn’t take place for past hurt and harm to multiplied dozens of people, among them Mars Hill pastors and former members of the Executive Elders.

Now, in response to the article posted by the BOAA on Friday, March 7, let me say this:

I am doing much more than “disagreeing with policy.”

This is an understatement to end all understatements. I am taking issue with attitudes and actions that I believe are in clear violation of I Timothy 3, Titus 1 and I Peter 5 and may be grounds for church discipline or outright removal. 

What I addressed in my “Formal Charges” on May 10, 2013 is very serious and was taken seriously by the BOAA. I was told by the chairman of the BOAA that although (in the BOAA’s mind) the charges were not serious enough for immediate removal from leadership for Mark, they could be depending on how he responded to the charges and what he did going forward.

We are talking about some very serious stuff here that can (and perhaps will) be supported by former leaders telling their story of what happened to them.

I have honestly been encouraged and “Satisfied with the steps that have been taken" in the past," but am currently far from it. Words like: Frustrated, sad and disappointed would better describe how I feel about results related to the actions of the BOAA.

 So what does Dave Kraft really want to see happen?

1.  I would (as would countless other former leaders from MHC) like to see Pastor Mark Driscoll publicly acknowledge that he has seen the charges, that they are true and that he will take whatever time and attention is needed to intentionally deal with the charges, which may entail a short sabbatical from work to focus on this.

2.  I would like to see Pastor Mark publicly state that he is sorry, that he has sinned, that he will deal with his past sin and make himself accountable in so doing to an unbiased group of leaders who will hold his feet to the fire on this.

I would appreciate prayer that I would honor Jesus in everything I do and say in these matters and that I would be truthful and courageous.

“Be on guard. Stand firm in the faith. Be courageous. Be strong. And do everything with love.”  1 Corinthians 16:13,14 (ESV)

More later.   

~dave

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    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!
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    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!
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    Response: collateral loans
    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!
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    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!
  • Response
    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!
  • Response
    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!
  • Response
    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!
  • Response
    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!
  • Response
    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!
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    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!
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    Response: judi bola
    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!
  • Response
    Leadership from the Heart - Posts - Do You Swear To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, So Help You God...I do!

Reader Comments (189)

Best of luck with your venture. Do you really believe you will succeed?
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterAndrew Kenny
Dave,

I appreciate you and your ministry. I think you are handling this very well, except for your plea for people to share this post on Twitter and Facebook.

It appears that everything you have done at this point has been above reproach. This plea for shares is the one thing that I believe falls below that line. At that point, it appears to be attention seeking. I don't think you need to worry about shares on this post and it looks better for you not to be pleading for them.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterMatt S
I have been praying that truth will be revealed, and will rule and reign at every level of His church. May she be found spotless and holy.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterJanet Varin
Dave, Thank you for spending the last couple of years with me pleading through the proper channels of Mars Hill for Mark, Sutton and Dave's repentance. You have been patient and God honoring in your efforts of living out Matthew 18 with the top leadership of the Church. It is obvious that at this point, we are now at the stage of bringing our charges before the church. Mark has left no option for that to happen other then publicly. This may come as a shock to many, but that is only because it hasn't been in the public eye, simply because we have spent almost the last two years submitting charges to the Board of Accountability and waiting for a response. I find it discouraging that the only response I have heard from them, was their public statement denying the charges that I among others have made.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterKyle
As a former Pastor of Mars Hill Church, I 100% support Dave Kraft, hold him as an example of Godly character (having know him for many years now), and agree with him that all attempts at Matthew 18 have failed with the EE of Mars Hill Church.

It is a cause for great sorrow but also great hope, that repentance can bring about reconciliation and restoration to hundreds of wounded people.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterZack Hubert
Thing that bothers me the most, both about the recent public criticisms of Mars Hill/Mark Driscoll and the BOAA statement, is a heartbreaking lack of concern for the sheep, particularly those who still see Jesus at work everyday in their local MHC churches/campuses. Watching various shepherds beat their chests at one another is entertaining and all, but I'm left with absolutely nothing of substance with respect to what me and my family are supposed to do with the church we have loved and served for about 7 years.

If it is your contention that Pastor Mark has committed serious disqualifying sins and the BOAA refuses to act on them, please be specific about what those sins are. This blog post tells me little other than that Dave Kraft is displeased. Why is that worthy of retweeting and Facebook sharing? You say there is more to come, but honestly, that just sounds like more PR, and as you can probably imagine, I've had about enough of that from my own church.

Please also be careful of those without legit claims against Pastor Mark and/or Mars Hill who would seek to attach themselves to your efforts out of their bitterness and desire for revenge. I know that does not describe all, or maybe not even most, of those who have left MHC on bad terms, but I know it to be true of some and would hate to see what you're trying to do descend to a MH Rage Fest that will end up accomplishing little.

Ultimately, I'm in prayer for you and all others involved, including Pastor Mark and the BOAA, and have hope that The Lord will work his good will through all of this. It would be great if that good will involved someone finally stepping up and telling the truth.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterConcerned MH Member
Dave, considering how irresponsibly disinterested you were when previous elders were viciously maligned, this news from you comes as bittersweet indeed. I remember clearly those meetings where you could not be bothered to fulfill your role as an elder and deal with the corruption. That was almost 10 years ago. And now you want people to pay attention because you finally see it? Welcome to the club--I guess.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterWill
Big, complicated, largely shrouded situation. Suffice to say, thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking this risk.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterDwayne Forehand
Thank you all for your comments. Continue to pray for wisdom, courage, repentance and that in it all Jesus would be honored and that the leadership at MHC would be healthier, and the culture would be one of Joy, freedom and openness.
~dave
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered Commenterdave
Thanks for your post, Dave. So many have been praying and have privately/directly reached out to MH leadership for the past 7-8 years over related sin that has caused so much damage to this church and the community surrounding it. Mostly these efforts have been met by hard heartedness. Many of us continue to pray in grief and love. Praying for all past and present MH leadership to own their direct involvement or indirect passivity in what has happened, so that they can each experience forgiveness and healing themselves and can be a hand of healing to others. We all are fallen and we all need the gospel! Praying for fruit in keeping with repentance-- including reaching out to those who have been run over in the process (Meyers, Petrys, and so many!). For those who are just hearing about this or are recently wounded by it, I want to encourage you that there is much hope and healing. God is infinitely bigger than all of this. He is doing amazing things in His church in the Seattle area and beyond. He is grieved over this and over your pain. He has you and will not let you go. It is hard to watch your community shaken up and to question what it means to be part of the Body of Christ. It is hard to look back on our own actions in this. But God is at work in all of us and in all of this. There is (abundant) life after MH. And I still pray for redemption at MH. There are so many things for which I am deeply grateful that came out of MH.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterBina E
Dave, thank you. I am so encouraged to see a call for repentance from someone so well respected and done without bitterness and vitriol.

Mark's sins are troublesome, as Dave mentions, because there has not been repentance, and he does not have true unbiased accountability. Moreso, his sin is laced through the teachings and cultures of the church and its members and leaders need to be held doubly accountable.

I recently left Mars Hill (on good terms, not acrimoniously). I was there from the very early days and spent most of my adult life there. Since being "out of the bubble" I've started to process some of the teachings and attitudes, and only with the benefit of some distance, have started to realize that there was and is so much subtly wrong.

In addition to the marquee sins Mark is accused of (plagiarism, buying the slot on the NYT best seller's list), there are countless more attitudinal sins that, for people like me piled up over the years and slowly warped our hearts. These are both in the way we view others outside the church (mocking people of other faiths and non-believers) and in the ways we were treated as members and leaders (too often used, not shepherded and cared for).

Thank you thank you Dave, and Zack for speaking out. I hope that there are more voices asking for repentance and accountability.

~~Exhillian
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterExHillian
APpreciate this post dave. Thats Appreciate with a lowercase P. Here is my question. This is all, very heartbreaking to me, listen dave I understand and am happy to see your heart here. Also encouraging is the fact that a man I consider dear and trustworthy reposted this. What I would like to know is what we as members, people who genuinely love this church and the people that serve it all the way up to the executive elders for all the great that has been done in the nowrthwest and beyond because of this ministry. What I would love is to see restoration at the highest level so that we can move forward without the ball and chain that is this current tragic situation. There has to be a way that we as a church, members and elders, can get through this. What can we do? I am a mere member attending in Tacoma hoping to participate in the work that this church and THE church is doing. It breaks my heart to see churches fighting, brothers hurting brothers, sisters hurting sisters. Maybe this is the right first step. I wish we could all just have a big pow wow and talk it out. Why not? Can we get that going? We are all people, children of God, committed (hopefully) to spreading the good news. It is our duty to get through this. .

Clearly I have no train of thought. What can we do? What can we as members do? I love this church and I love the church and I want to see us all honour one another biblically. I want the executive elders to know us members love them and we are here for them. We can do this. I just don't know how. Ill check in again
Without knowing all of the details on both sides of the argument, I can't speak to whether there is outstanding sin Pastors Mark & Sutton need to repent of publicly. Here's the summary in bullet points of MHC's response to the allegations around the new york times bestseller controversy
- we've never done this before and won't do it again
- it wasn't as bad or as expensive as everyone is saying it was
- it was the fault of our outside council and the marketing team
- it's not technically illegal
- everybody does it

I'm left dissatisfied. Not because I want to hear the juicy details and somehow "get to the bottom of it", but because the response so far admits no sin or wrong-doing, but rather seems to say "I'm sorry if what i did bothered you" as opposed to the model for repentance Pastor Mark taught us over and over again, "True repentance is confession, contrition, and change; it takes the whole person."

I hope that Pastor Mark, Pastor Sutton and anyone else involved will hear this:
1. no one expects pastors to be without sin, but church members and new converts will look to you as their model for repentance
2. repenting of sin makes you better as a spiritual leader, not worse
3. while there are critics rooting for MHC to go down in flames, many of us who have left MHC in the past few years still pray for and root for the MHC leadership team. We love you
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterJohn Clem
Dave, I do not know the specifics of the circumstances that you refer to, but would sincerely ask that you check your heart with the use of social media to distract both the flock and non-Christians. I would ask that you prayerfully consider your intentions using social media as a way to bring about change or justice. Although it may seem that there are two sides: Mars Hill & ex-staff, there are really only two real sides: those saved by Jesus and those not saved by Jesus. Brother, we are on the same side. Please consider how this will effect non-Christians or new Christians reading this. Jesus has the ultimate power over His Church; this is not the forum for change, just or unjust.

- A brother in Christ
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterA Brother in Christ
I agree with the plea to repost this on twitter and facebook. This needs to go viral because there is no real accountability that Mark Driscoll will submit to that does not involved finding a PR way out. The universal church therefore is responsible to hold him accountable. We are not to tear him down, but to prayerfully love him out of his lies, and that may mean being tough and exposing facts he refuses to face. It is time for Mark Driscoll to acknowledge he needs to let God do the work whether or not he is the leader. it is high time the Christian community stopped enabling his brash, selfish, and hypocritical behaviors, which are unfit for the office of an elder, per Scripture. No more excuses or half-hearted attempts to twist Scripture to say otherwise.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterMelody
To Veylkland from Tacoma and others that may be interested - http://www.reddit.com/r/marshillanonymous/

I started a space on Reddit a week ago, coincidentally, and unrelated to this. Here was my kickoff post:

I attended Mars Hill Church in Seattle for many years. I left the church recently, and on friendly terms. I attended regularly, served actively in different capacities, tithed faithfully, and held various official roles in my years there.

If you are or were a regular Mars Hill member you may very well know me or know of me.

In the time since I have left Mars Hill I've been thinking through my years there and the different experiences I had. I have lots of thoughts. In addition, I continue to maintain my friendships, many with Ex-MH people like myself, many still faithful members of Mars Hill. They have lots of thoughts as well.

There has always been a wide spectrum of opinions about Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill. From the very beginning of the church there were detractors and critics, faithful happy members and leaders, and everything in between.

In recent years, some ex-MH members have created blogs and written articles about their experiences. Meanwhile, MH continues to tell stories in sermons and on their own blogs about the stories and lives of people that are currently a part of Mars Hill.

I think there is value in both of those forums, but (1) they are curated and (2) they are personally identifiable.

Through some conversation with close friends, we all felt that what was lacking was a place for open and honest dialog. A place to share what we're thinking and how we're processing.

And we felt that there was not such a place today, outside of small, f2f gatherings. There are people that are willing to go on record and use their real names (in both camps of support and criticism), but for myself and most others I've talked with, we don't want this.

I personally want to share my thoughts and experiences. I personally do not want to vilify Mark or Mars Hill. I do think that, just like any large organizations there are problems. There also are and were lots of positive things. I want to be free to talk about those openly. I also have a lot of questions. I'm processing myself from my many years there, and I'm not quite sure how to think about it all. I want to air half formed thoughts and discuss. I want to hear from others their thoughts (half formed or thought through).

Dialog. Open. Honest. Anonymous. Welcome, friends. You're safe here.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterExHillian
RE: A Brother In Christ

So, in order to look good for the non-Christians we should put on friendly faces, lie through gritted teeth, and continue to let issues hurt more and more people for the good of Jesus?!? This is the kind of PR argument that MHC has been using to downplay and whitewash its issues for years.

Luke 12:1

Beware of the Leaven of the Pharisees

1In the meantime, when so many thousands of the people had gathered together that they were trampling one another, he began to say to his disciples first, “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 2Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 3Therefore whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed on the housetops.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterCasey E
"During the Spring of 2013 the BOAA mandated that a thorough review be conducted with all former staff from that period, soliciting their feedback so that no needed lessons for a healthier future would be neglected. In the summer of 2013 the BOAA reviewed that report, and needed corrections to policy and detrimental management patterns had been made..."

If this is all true then why was a close friend of mine fired so abruptly and treated like a red-headed step child for a very inadvertant mistake he made while faithfully serving Mark, his family, and the executive elders? This friend of mine served Mars Hill for over eight years, helped start the downtown campus, and while on staff volunteered his time protecting Mark's life and family. My friend and his family were hurt so badly by the situation they literally moved to another state. Nate, if you are reading this, we miss you brother.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered Commenter- A Concerned Member
There is a torrent going through me, so I'll do my best to be clear and brief.

First, I fully and completely second everything John Clem said. I wrestle, too, with saying my name or being anonymous, but at the moment where I land is that I pray the elders will actually allow the members to have a Biblical access to them, to ask them to deal with this situation openly and not shrouded in darkness. Mars Hill calls this PR, but it is darkness--perhaps to a selective inner circle these things are in a small corner of light, but for the body writ large we are kept in darkness and told to trust them, yet even when serious charges do become public (never because MH told us, but through avenues like this where "stories break") there is no repentance. "Repentance" from Mars Hill's executive elders comes in one of two ways:

1. MIstakes were made but we have systems in place to ensure they never happen again.
2. Generic statements from Pastor Mark in the pulpit, with some of the language of true repentance ("I have not loved you well, and I am grieved and sorry.") but never naming specific sin to repent of.

It is in Mars Hill counseling that I learned that if we are not repenting of a specific sin it is not repentance. When the Spirit convicts, he names the specific sin--the specific words, the actual actions, pinpointing the particular attitude, or events and circumstances surrounding when our tone was harsh and cruel.

To be wedded to a church is because it is much like a marriage. The analogy breaks down, because God does call people out of churches on good terms. Perhaps it's to plant a new one or start a new job closer to ailing parents, or just to leave rainy Seattle for sunny San Diego. With that said, my husband and I regard Mars Hill like our marriage in that God has called us here, and apart from him making clear that he is calling us out, our only reason we would leave is for sin akin to to kinds the Bible gives as grounds for BIblical divorce. This is not to say that Mark has to be caught in bed with a person who is not his wife, but the requirements for elders are much more strict.

This is where the darkness and the marriage collide--we often feel like, behind the aesthetically beautiful stage sets and website, and there is a large pile of the bones of people chewed up and spit out by elders (namely the EEs, but also by people who act in likeness with the example set by the EEs), wounded souls entangled in pain and acrimony, some still in the church and others who have left MH. On the one hand, we need not know every single grievance. But at the same time, if Pastors Mark, Sutton, and Dave are guilty of violating charges to elders to be above board in a way that comes with much stricter judgment per James 3 (by God AND people, as Mark pointed out last week), then at some point the church body needs to know these charges publicly, especially if the EEs refuse to make them public themselves and no one can actually hold the EEs accountable to do so because THEY are the ones who decide what constitutes the need for public repentance (let alone what they are not repenting of so certainly don't think needs to be public).

But in my marriage, if my CG leader husband is leading to a men's meeting and confessing that he smudged our taxes in a way that's not *illegal* but could get us in trouble if the IRS did digging, and then that happens again the next year and he never changes, at some point not only do I as his wife need to be told whether he wants to or not, but he shouldn't be leading that meeting. Maybe he needs a sabbatical of sorts or maybe he has fully disqualified himself. I am wedded to him, but that is not to say that I am to think, "Oh, he's a sinner," while blindly lauding him as man who is a sinner but never has to repent of specific sin. Certainly his inner circle of dudes he leads don't get to treat me like I am a dumb sheep, baa-baa-baaing my way through meals cooked and children raised and floors scrubbed and sexual availability and pursuit made, so my husband can feel like a mighty man of God while never enacting the single most powerful evidence God has given us of belonging to him: fully owning that he sinned, has no excuse, desperately needs Jesus, and is laying it at the feet of Jesus for me to cling to Christ's redemptive work on the cross for the ability to forgive him.

So, then, this is where I pray that the inner circle of dudes will no longer have their inner meetings where they decide that talking to one another constitutes repentance. My husband and I have been really praying through the portion of Alexander Strauch's BIblical Eldership book, wherein he makes the case from I Timothy 5 that an elder's persistent sin is to be brought before the body, both to model repentance and also to strike fear into the hearts of the people, ala the same word for fear used in Acts in Ananias and Sapphira are struck dead. Sin is SERIOUS. Mars Hill in no way models this. If any elder at MH Bellevue, where we serve, was involved in any serious sin we have no idea because nothing is ever said. Members barely get a notice when an elder commits a disqualifying sin that ends his ability to ever serve in the office of elder again (namely, adultery). Also, as Straugh points out, gossip and conjecture are put to death when the church brings the juicy secrets into the light. The truth kills gossip, not hiding things or PR spinning them.

This is where the darkness and marriage analogies meet. A deep concern we have about Mars Hill and have prayed through for a long time is that Mars Hill rarely owns actual sin (I can think of one situation where a head coach left Mars Hill with great bitterness, which he still spews, last year and the elders owned their part and repented to the CG leaders at the next Sync and dealt with the situation openly, and encouraged the leaders to take the information back to their CGs--this is the rare example, and in fact the only one I can think of), and even when sin comes into the light by outside means, the elders only say mistakes were made that won't happen again. I cannot think of them EVER fully owning sin in the model of Biblical repentance. We are wedded to this church, but just as I pray that the men around my husband would bring truth into the light with me, even when he insists the darkness is God's best and for Jesus' name's sake because his deceitful heart would have it this way, I pray that the sins you, Dave, allege were brought in formal charges would be made known to the bride. It is not grounds for us to divorce the church so much as to fully know our husband and pray for his repentance.

Of course, again that is a broken analogy because JESUS is my husband. My faith in him is why I still serve at Mars Hill, still invest our time, money, literal tears, and much metaphorical blood and sweat. I do trust Jesus that these men love Jesus and will repent if they have the Holy Spirit. There can be reconciliation and truth. God can even use that which Mark fears most--Mars Hill looking bad, perhaps waves of people leaving, Mars Hill being shown to have sinful and at times foolish leaders who didn't rely on Jesus--for his glory because the repentance of men like the EEs and reconciliation of those deeply hurt and wounded would prove the Gospel--Jesus takes the irreparably broken and, by his blood, makes it whole. I have experienced this in the last 6 months with someone I believed I could never trust, and now there is deep love and affection between us because we had to take two years of painful conflict to the cross, each admit our own sin, our hurt from the others' sin, and believe Jesus to heal and restore.

This became long. Seven years at MH is hard to put into shorthand for me; perhaps I should have only said, "A hearty second to what John Clem said."

I will end with this: I was talking with my husband about how I am torn, because those who signed the NDAs put their signature and gave their word. But he likened it, wisely, to Edward Snowden. Yes, Snowden broke his "yes" when he revealed state secrets. However, he should not be jailed for illegally revealing the illegalities committed by a governing organization whose very job is to protect people who have entrusted them to do so. To use that power to spy on and commit illegal acts against those people is atrocious and the people have the right to know about it, even if the word given by Snowden originally was to protect state secrets. I feel the same, in turn, about those who brought formal charges. Yes, NDAs were signed, but we feel NDAs are unbiblical and unenforceable. Mars Hill's true recourse would be to sue these people on legal grounds for breach of contract, but the Bible explicitly forbids this action of Christian brother against Christian brother (or sister).

I hope that the pile of bones behind the stage would no longer be treated as a secret. The stench has long reached the congregation. It's time to pull the curtain back and bring it into the light. My singular caution is that this would be done prayerfully and carefully, taking great caution to mindfully consider the sheep and not just a desire to whack the shepherd(s) with the stick of truth and justice. God will have his justice. He gets his vengeance and Romans makes no secret of this. But as the anon commenter above said, we don't need to see more shepherds beating their chests at one another. We need to see shepherds clinging to Jesus and tearfully pleading with the EEs and even the BOAA to come with them.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterMH Deacon
I have had friends walk away from relationship with me because I didn't attend Mars Hill. I've tried to warn them that the church authority structure was abusive and ungodly but they refused to believe me. I told them to watch the money and the amount of staff turnover yet they continue to defend the church leadership.

Regarding the money, this new "best-seller" controversy is a perfect example. Did MH use tithed dollars to purchase the required amount of books, and then turn around and charge the MH attendees to then purchase said book? I visited MH once and was shocked by the large pile of Driscoll books for sale in the lobby. From the outside looking in it seems that the entire organization is designed to advance the teaching of Driscoll.

He says he doesn't make a lot of money from his books, but how then can he afford a million dollar home near Edmonds? Is his salary so large that he can make such a purchase, all while attendees of his church are quite likely paying twice for his books?

For those at MH, please be warned. Working to advance a specific local church is not the same as working for Jesus. It can be, but working for a local church is not the beginning and end of your faith. It's simply a portion of it. However, my MH friends are obviously focused on MH this, and MH that. It seems their priority is to advance the specific goals of Driscoll (the all-knowing pastor who speaks from God to them) and MH. Please wake and up and recognize that Driscoll is just a man, like any other man.
March 9, 2014 | Unregistered CommenterSeattle Area Resident

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